Anyones thought on anything changed in the last 12 months?

You cant teach an old dog new tricks...

Published on September 6, 2005 By Sam Edney In Blog Communities

I havent posted on this site for a very long time... Things havent changed a bit!!!

Attitudes havent changed at all! The hard-rights are still hard-right, the lefts are still left... There has not been one inch of concession or compromise! In fact, after reading a few posts, I would say things have gotten even more polarised!

It makes me wonder what the hell point there is to these kind of sites at all?! How much time has everyone wasted to try and get their point accross to someone?!

Discussion almost seems to be a one way tunnel here...

Has anyone actually thought about something differently since another member posted an alternative opinion to their own - or do you just fight it out until everyone gets bored?

Please give examples, as I havent been able to read the whole database!!

Comments

Sam Edney

on Sep 06, 2005

This is a question by the way... not supposed to be having a dig at anyone...

Try not to flare up!

bakerstreet

on Sep 06, 2005

It's about self-expression. I'd like for people to change their minds, but in the end I'm not really all that upset if they don't.

Also, the people that post are a drop in the bucket compared to the people who read and move on. Just because some people aren't persuaded doesn't mean other people aren't swayed one way or the other by the arguments.

After all, has public debate ever been about changing your opponent's mind? When was the last time one Presidential candidate threw up his hands and said "You've convinced me!! I'm voting for you!!". Still, we have them. Is it futile because they don't woo each other?

Moderateman

on Sep 06, 2005

yep I changed my mind about liberals being liberal, they are only liberal when you totally agree with them.

Sam Edney

on Sep 06, 2005

Politicians wouldnt want to look like they were wrong. They will hardly ever admit to their mistakes!

Ever read "1984"? Some people might think "double-think" is actually in place right now! ie. You know one thing to be true, but truely believe the opposite!

Just because the politicians cant be turned, doesnt mean its the right way to be. Does it?

Wouldnt it be great if one day, in a top political debate, someone of power said... "Actually, you know what?... You're right! Lets get that in place right away!"...

The world would improve overnight!

msladydeath

on Sep 07, 2005

I have had my opinions changed on a few subjects. I am here because I learn things all the time from the posts people make. I learn others opinions and why they have them, different ways to look at things, what ideas may or may not work, and even brush up on my debate skills.

I enjoy JU and everyone on it! They have helped me grow as a person.

bakerstreet

on Sep 07, 2005

SE: Are you saying there are people here that know they are wrong, and yet refuse to believe differently? Or are you saying they are wrong and should realize they are wrong?

I'm not sure if your problem is with public debate, or people you disagree with. Regardless, I think it is obvious that public debate isn't necessarily about changing the mind of your opponent. None of these issues have a 'duh' conclusion. If they did, they wouldn't be issues.

Chakgogka

on Sep 07, 2005

I've changed my mind on quite a lot of things since I've been coming here: it's an occupational hazard of being 'militantly wishy-washy'

. An example would be my increasingly sympathetic attitude towards American politics and society.

Just as importantly, I've also not changed my mind on other issues, but come to a greater appreciation of the opposing view. An example would be the issue of gay marriage, which I don't much care about, but am still in favour of. I'll confess that I once saw all opponents as irrational bigots, but I now can see that the argument is actually deeply complex, with political and legal ramifications as well as moral and religious aspects.

I've also moved on other issues from certainty to a position of confusion, which I actually see as, in some ways, an intellectual improvement. An example would be the war in Iraq - I started off vehemently opposed and now I'm not sure.

As to whether people in general are willing to change their minds, or skillful enough to change the minds of others, it's worth pointing out that the very idea of the desirability of changing one's mind is in itself an ideological position - one which I obviously hold

. Some people in perfect sincerity have no time for it, as they already possess the truth. According to the Chinese proverb there are three truths: my truth, your truth and the truth

ParaTed2k

on Sep 07, 2005

That all depends on why you are interested in sharing your opinion, and having other share their's with you. When I write, I'm not trying to change anyone, I'm just telling people what I think. When I pull up an article, it isn't to see what changes I need to make in my life, it is merely to see what the writer thinks about a topic.

I will say though that reading others opinion does help me understand that what I think isn't the only way to look at something. So, while reading opinions doesn't necessarily change mine, it does have its effect.

Sam Edney

on Sep 07, 2005

Im not talking about trying to change someone elses opinion. Im talking about has your opinion changed on anything, thanks to something you have read on here.

I guess this is where this thread was coming from....

I think, that the more you lean to the right, the more stuck in your ways you will be. You are more convinced of your opinion, and you are not really open to debate. You might participate in debates, but really only to get your own point accross.

Chester: Like my old grand daddy used to say, "The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in retrospect."

From the movie "Four Rooms"

Left wingers can be just as stuck in their ways as the rights, but the whole idea of liberalism is that you are open to persuasion, and are not even 100% behind your own thoughts. Your opinion is not already made up. You can change your mind! You dont always have to prove yourself right.

This will eventually end up with everyone becomming more and more right-wing as they grow older. Which makes sense, as you have more to lose when you get older... Plus, as you get older, change becomes a more and more difficult thing to deal with.

ParaTed2k

on Sep 07, 2005

Don't take this personally Sam, but this is one of the most hilarious serious statemetns I've read in a long time. Tell me again how open to others' opinions Michael Moore, Cindy Sheehan or Ted Kennedy are? ROFL!!!

Chakgogka

on Sep 07, 2005

Ted, I think if you read 'left wingers' and 'liberals' as apples and oranges (i.e. originally totally different philosophies - and still seen as such in Europe - ) this actually makes a lot of sense. Once again, that bloody word 'liberal'...

Sam Edney

on Sep 07, 2005

Lol. Although they consider themselves liberal- there are some pretty hard-liners there! They seem way more open to persuasion than their equivalent hard-rights though.

That said, the statement is correct and I stand by it. I think we just have different interpretations of the word liberal.

---
1. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
2. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
3. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
4. Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.

1. Tending to give freely; generous: a liberal benefactor.
2. Generous in amount; ample: a liberal serving of potatoes.
3. Not strict or literal; loose or approximate: a liberal translation.
4. Of, relating to, or based on the traditional arts and sciences of a college or university curriculum: a liberal education.

bakerstreet

on Sep 07, 2005

I think you and Micheal Moore have diffent definitions as well, at least in practice. I could call myself the Wizard of Oz, but it wouldn't make me so. If Micheal Moore wants to call himself Liberal, it damn sure doesn't mean he is "open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded."

Sam Edney

on Sep 07, 2005

Maybe Moore picked this one...

2. Generous in amount; ample: a liberal serving of potatoes.

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