Had guns not been so readily available, would this problem have been a lot easier to resolve?

You say this as if everyone that has a gun on the streets of N.O. this evening got their firearm legally, when they in fact acquired them by looting and stealing them.  What are the owners of the gun stores supposed todo - stay with their store and drown trying to stop a few eejits from illegally taking their stock?

 

No, but thats kind of my point.

What if there had been less weapons in the shops? Hell... What if firearms were illegal?

(Like almost every other modern/westernised country in the world!)

Would the whole situation have been better without guns

If it hadn't been guns, it would have been knives, or anything else that people could get their hands on or fashion into a weapon.  Have you ever watched any documentaries about prisons?  If you have, then you'll have seen that the prisoners will use ANYTHING for a weapon.  Sharpened toothbrushes, ballpoint pens...ANYTHING.  My husband runs a jail, he's seen it (and continues to see it).

You cant put a helicopter off course with a sharpened toothbrush. Might have saved a couple more lives at least.

What if there had been less weapons in the shops? Hell... What if firearms were illegal?

Haven't you seen the crime rates and methods in the UK?  (By the way, your usage of the word 'shop' rather than 'store' suggests to me that you're british)  britan doesn't have guns, but they've got knives...and the Independent reported recently that some British doctors and politicians were calling for a ban on knives over a certain length becuase of all the violent crime that was being committed with them.

Violence is violence is violence.....it's just the delivery method that changes.

You cant put a helicopter off course with a sharpened toothbrush

Oh please.  You've been watching too much TV.

Depends on which end of the gun you're on, I'm off for there tonight to clear out my sister's stuff, and we're taking two twelve-gauges. Good times.

Interesting question...Hopefully my reply is just as interesting.

Ok, if there were absolutely no guns, yes, it would be a little more safe. However, it's not like there weren't armed gang bangers in New Orleans before Katrina came around. If you were trapped in New Orleans at this point, would you rather be trapped there with, or without a gun? (((I remind you also that, since it is illegal for convicted felons to carry guns, most the gang bangers in the city carry their guns illegally)))

In the next few weeks we are going to start to understand the full impact of what happens when household chemicals, vehicle fluids, industrial chemicals, and the bodies of dead animals and people get all mixed together in a flood. The environmental impact of these toxins are going to be a much bigger problem for recovery than any amound of guns have been. So, did law abiding citizens owning all these chemicals and toxins make New Orleans a safer place? For that matter, basic American freedom has made the disaster much worse that it could have been... should we make all freedoms illegal, for the sake of "safety"?

I’m just of the opinion that if it only takes 4 days for people to start looting, shooting, raping and killing each other - in America, then there has to be something wrong with the way things are... It shouldn’t take just 4 days for things to go that sour! Should it?

The way I see it, it could be down to a few key points... (Please add to this list if you think of other major areas)

1. Guns (Lots of..)
2. Extreme poverty / oppression
3. Gang mentality

1. Guns made the most sense to me. At least for the immediate reaction... When you have a gun and you are helpless, having that gun will make you feel less helpless. You are also much more likely to use it. Even if its to defend your wrecked empty house that’s going to have to be flattened anyway (if it makes it through to the next week). Many BAD people already have guns. When the stores were deserted, many of those bad people went to get more FREE guns! Half of which will never be recovered!

2. Poverty in the extreme oppresses people like nothing many of us have even known. Even if we are hard up, we at least still have access to the Internet. When any kind of oppression is lifted - for example - when Saddam was overthrown in Iraq - people go berserk. Looting. Stealing. They take what they want, when they want! A real sense of freedom can come out. The problem with New Orleans residents getting like this was that it was purely instinctive. It really didn’t serve anyone very well! In a place with no electricity for 80 miles, a 42" plasma screen isn’t much use.

I think the reason normal people started looting, was because for the first time in their lives, they had access to all the things they had always wanted! Even if it meant, "stealing" to get it. Most Americans are not too dumb to forget that Wal-Mart has insurance! "I don’t need to feel that bad for stealing something from a deserted, flooded mega-store!!"

3. When gangs are given a free-reign, they are going to explode! Gang mentality is already that of a kind of outlaw. Given no police, they are likely to feel like they have been promoted, and given a license to do all the things they talked about. Any gang activity will be increased, and heightened and people will be forced to defend themselves! Back to the point about guns....

Depends on which end of the gun you're on, I'm off for there tonight to clear out my sister's stuff, and we're taking two twelve-gauges. Good times.

What is your country coming to? How can you say the words "Good Times" when by this time tomorrow you might have killed someone!?

So, did law abiding citizens owning all these chemicals and toxins make New Orleans a safer place? For that matter, basic American freedom has made the disaster much worse that it could have been... should we make all freedoms illegal, for the sake of "safety"?

I think we can all clearly see a difference between household chemicals and firearms here.

"Basic American Freedom" is also a strange term when talking about the right to bear arms. I feel free, but Im not allowed a gun!

Haven't you seen the crime rates and methods in the UK? (By the way, your usage of the word 'shop' rather than 'store' suggests to me that you're british) britan doesn't have guns, but they've got knives...and the Independent reported recently that some British doctors and politicians were calling for a ban on knives over a certain length becuase of all the violent crime that was being committed with them. Violence is violence is violence.....it's just the delivery method that changes.

"Just the delivery method" ?

I see the crime rates in the UK, and they are nothing like that of the US! I suspect a lot more Brits would be killed if all the crazy people who go around stabbing others had access to guns!! I can run away from someone with a knife a lot easier than someone with a glock.

"Had guns not been so readily available, would this problem have been a lot easier to resolve?"

I always find it funny when people use this excuse for guns, but if I were to say the same thing about drugs they'd go nuts. There will always be access to guns just as there will always be access to drugs. As long as there is a demand, there will be a supply.

So, these people would still have guns. On the other hand people who want to obey the law probably wouldn't. Guns are legal, though restricted in the UK, as in most of the world. As long as people blame crime on guns, crime won't be addressed.

I think we can all clearly see a difference between household chemicals and firearms here. "Basic American Freedom" is also a strange term when talking about the right to bear arms. I feel free, but Im not allowed a gun!

Way to not answer any comment I made. There is NOT a clear difference between the chemicals that now float around freely in New Orleans flooding and guns. Both contribute to the problem. The chemicals will end up causing a much bigger problem than the guns, and guns are no more or less dangerous than clorox or rat poison.

Notice I didn't say "right to bear arms" I said, "basic American freedoms"... like the right to not evacuate when the order goes out. If the military moved in and loaded everyone up in busses, threatening to shoot anyone who resisted, the evacuation would have been a matter of a few hours the day before Katrina made landfall.

The point is, there is nothing safe about New Orleans right now (with or without guns), so your whole premise is pointless.

btw.... I had a paramedic partner from England who used to laugh every time he heard someone talk about how there are no guns in England. He was raised with guns, he and his father went shooting at the Gun Club quite often. It seems that there is a right to have guns in England... as long as you can afford to be a member of a gun club. Apparently in Merry Old England "rights" are a matter of money... and nothing else.

There will always be access to guns just as there will always be access to drugs. As long as there is a demand, there will be a supply.

That’s a cop out. You can’t churn out guns from your basement in the same way you can grow weed, or make pills. I know... its possible, but gun smuggling regs can be tightened. You don’t get many people flying in from Jamaica with an Uzi up their arse!

Way to not answer any comment I made.

Sorry boss... Didn’t mean to skip it. I totally agree with what you are saying about the chemicals. Its going to be a nightmare. Worse than the gun situation I suspect. Things are not going to be safe there for a long time. Sewage, household waste, chemicals, industry pollution... None of it is helping the situation on the ground.

What I meant was that most people require cleaning products for everyday life (some will say they don't, but lets not be pedantic)... This is surely not the case with weapons?

. Apparently in Merry Old England "rights" are a matter of money... and nothing else.

I never said guns were banned in the UK, you just have to apply to get them and its a much more difficult process than it is in the US. I’m not allowed a gun as I’m not a member of a gun club and don’t really want to be!

ALL hand-held firearms (pistols, SMGs etc) are illegal. Gun clubs allow rifles and shotguns etc. In fact, my girlfriend’s father has two shotguns for bird shooting.

Fire-arms offences are on the up in the UK, but they are never going to get to the same levels as they are in the US per capita because most people would find it difficult to get a gun.

ANYWAY!!! We are getting sidetracked!! I’m not sure why you all feel the need to discuss the UK??! I never brought it up!

Lets try to keep the focus on the question. Guns in New Orleans right now... ??? People shooting each other after a few days of flooding.

Or cant you bear to have a foreigner bring up sensitive issues such as US gun law?!