Surely, if Israel just gave back the land it seized in the 1967 war, it would get in return peace with its neighbors?

Also, with regards to other countries getting aid from the US:

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According to the American-Israeli Cooperative Enterprise (AICE), from 1949-2001 the U.S. has given Israel a total of $94,966,300,000. The direct and indirect aid from this year should put the total U.S. aid to Israel since 1949 at over one hundred billion dollars. What is not widely known, however, is that most of this aid violates American laws. The Arms Export Control Act stipulates that US-supplied weapons be used only for "legitimate self-defense."
======================= Source = http://www.wrmea.com/html/usaidtoisrael0001.htm

Egypt isnt spending a large sum of its money on offence (unless thats another thing I dont know about!)

Surely, if Israel just gave back the land it seized in the 1967 war, it would get in return peace with its neighbors?

The Arabs do not believe that Israel has a right to exist. Giving back land would only bolster there Arab neighbors cause and give them confidence to push for extermination of the Jewish state.

Referring to the "Six day War" in 1967 is funny because the Arab states surrounding Israel were so overconfident and they actually lost land (Golan Heights, West Bank & Gaza strip) instead of taking Israel's land. According to history when you lose your land in War it's lost forever (with a few exceptions). The Palestinians should move on and make the most out of what they have left, they could in the end lose it all.

"I do however feel that it is Israel who has to make the first move, as the greater power (mostly thanks to US aid) it needs to kick start the peace process again."

Time and again Israel has attended "peace" conferences, and as I said terrorists pick those exact times to attack. I feel sorry for the Palestinian people, I really do, but at this point no amount of "detante" is going to change anything. The utter destruction of these terrorist organizations is the only way to ensure that Israel is left in peace. If neighboring nations support and house them, then the neighboring nations should face destruction.

I'll say it again. Left to itself, Israel would be attacking NO ONE. Even as it stands, Israel has shown great restraint at being constanly harrowed by its neighbors. Now that the world as a whole is concerned with terrorism, instead of turning a blind eye to it as they did for the decades that it was an "Israeli" problem, now we can start to dissect these organizations from the top down.

Palestinians and their terrorist handlers have spit opportunity after opportunity back into Israel's face. The time may soon come that there are no more opportunities. If a nation is living peacefully, even after years of constant provocation, I believe they are owed a lot of credit for what peace there is.

Militant, fundamentalist Islam is much of the problem. I would suggest reading the "Islam a peaceful religion??" discussion. The conflict with Israel has a great deal to do with the fact that even mainstream Islam in the Middle East refuses to accept the idea that Isreal has a right to exist.

Bakerstreet........it's funny because i'm not sure if I like you or dislike you. I'm not sure what side of the arguement your on sometimes I think you agree with me and sometimes i'm not sure...........But I guess that's why blogging is fun

I'm pretty honestly conflicted, lol. If I had been alive after WW2, I would have not been in favor of the creation of Israel. Well, I would have at least been at odds with the terms of its creation.

As it stands now, though, 3 generations of people have been born in Israel. These are now "indigenous" Israelis, with as much right to be there as my daughter has to live here in what was once Cherokee land. I don't think you can even ponder the issue of whether Israel should exist, and yet the people that Israel are forced to sit down with have openly stated the destruction of their nation as their chief aim.

To me, you simply can't make peace with these people. They don't want peace, it isn't in their interest. I think the average Palestinian wants peace, and their hands are tied. Perhaps it isn't possible for the Palestinians to sit down with someone like Sharon, either.

It is always going to come back to the fact that Israel is attacked, Israel retaliates. You can't expect them not to, and they aren't "allowed" to attack Syria and Iran and all the other nations that really pull the strings behind the scenes. It is a sad, sad situation, and at its roots lies the hateful tone of fundamentalist Islam as it relates to Israel.

Once people are ready for coextistance, they'll accept it. I am just afraid that it is going to take something on a more global scale to cut the strings of all these Palestinian puppets. When Israel is no longer attacked, then people can address the plight of the Palestinian people. Until then, the issue is terrorism.

Hi Sam

I more or less agree with what you feel. But somehow in all this political landscape of East vs West. Big vs Small. We "humans" have lost somewhere.

The bottom line is that
"Irrespective of color, race, ethnicity , beliefs, status EACH AND EVERY HUMAN BEING HAS GOT THE RIGHT TO LIVE IN PEACE and WITH DIGNITY" . And this right is same for any American, Indian, Iraqi, Israeli.


There are tonnes of faiths in the world. But instead of revelling in the diversity , we bleed and kill each other. Even god would be ashamed of us. In the name of security,politics we kill each other. Why?

If we really want to make a difference

Let us spread hope
Let us give smile
and above all

Let us grow love

bye

PS- my thoughts are in disarray, and grammar ( pathetic ). Kindly bear. I hope i was able to share as what i want to.

Sam....You seem like a very bright person. Yes, there is a conflict in our country and yes it is sparked way to often by interference from other countries, especially the United States. They continue to give "loans" to the state of Israel and expect the Israeli government to stand behind every policy they come up with regarding the middle east. Israel in effect, is nothing but a pawn of the United States government.
The Palestinian Authority has not been as aggreeable to U.S. policies, mainly because the U.S. refuses to even negotiate with them at present. All acts of terrror are blamed on the Palestinian Authority even though most of these acts are taken "credit" for by various terrorist groups. The Palestinian Authority is far from perfect, it is corrupt, it cheats the people it is meant to serve, but this is in no way any worse than the government of Israel which at present is riddled with various scandals involving our prime minister and members of his immediate family.
My personal belief, and hopeful solutionto the present crisis is to get to know our Palestinian neighbours. Get to know them in every way, and have them get to know us. Joint cultural, sport, educational projects are a key to understanding and trust. Both of our peoples have so much in common, only personal interreaction with each other will prove that to each of us.
This is just a few of my thoughts, I'd like to continue this discussion at another time.....byt NO Sam.... there IS something you can do.... just realise that both our peoples, the Israeli and the Palestinian have rights that must be defended. No outside nation must be allowed to medle in our affairs. YOU can pressure the United States government to be fair to both sides, not just the side that owes them money.

To me, you simply can't make peace with these people. They don't want peace, it isn't in their interest. I think the average Palestinian wants peace, and their hands are tied. Perhaps it isn't possible for the Palestinians to sit down with someone like Sharon, either.

Do you think the same could be said for the US government? Obviously they would benefit from peace, but they also benefit from war. As Ocean Colour Scene once sang: "There's no profit in peace boys, so we must fight some more".

There are tonnes of faiths in the world. But instead of revelling in the diversity , we bleed and kill each other. Even god would be ashamed of us. In the name of security,politics we kill each other. Why?

This reminds me of a quote:

"We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another" By Jonathan Swift

Its such a shame but it is obviously true.

My personal belief, and hopeful solution to the present crisis is to get to know our Palestinian neighbours. Get to know them in every way, and have them get to know us. Joint cultural, sport, educational projects are a key to understanding and trust. Both of our peoples have so much in common, only personal interaction with each other will prove that to each of us.

I suppose the new wall is going to make this much harder for everyone. It might stop the suicide bombing, but the Palestinians quality of life will get worse. A sure way to cause further tension. Then, the wall will surely have to come down some day. What then? You still wont get on with your neighbours.

YOU can pressure the United States government to be fair to both sides, not just the side that owes them money.

Unfortunately, I cannot pressure the US in to doing anything. Hell, even Mr. Blair or the UN can't pressure the US in to doing anything! What hope have we when Mr. Bush seems to have no respect for the views of all non-US people. Come to think of it, does he even respect the US people’s views?

So why did we think they posed such a risk recently enough to have to go to war with them a second time?

Because we thought they might manufacture WMDs and give them to terrorists. Another reason to go to war was to end the sanctions without empowering Saddam.

I do however feel that it is Israel who has to make the first move, as the greater power (mostly thanks to US aid) it needs to kick start the peace process again.

Sharon has a plan to dismantle settlements.

Surely, if Israel just gave back the land it seized in the 1967 war, it would get in return peace with its neighbors?

If only it were that simple. One reason Israel took the land in the first place was to put it in better strategic position to defend itself.

The Palestinian Authority has not been as aggreeable to U.S. policies, mainly because the U.S. refuses to even negotiate with them at present. All acts of terrror are blamed on the Palestinian Authority even though most of these acts are taken "credit" for by various terrorist groups.

Was the Palestinian Authority more agreeable when the US negotiated with Arafat? Do you seriously think that terrorist groups in Palestine would be able to operate as effectively as they do without either complicity or gross incompetence from the Palestinian Authority?

Hmm. Not very constructive comments from either Helix or Madine. Why do Americans feel they always have to defend this issue? Im not blaming America for the problem, but due to their continued support of Israel over the years - and the fact that Israel use their weapons quite openly for offence, they should do something about it - not Germany.

A good reason that the rest of the world dont do anything, is that Israel has the full backing of the US. No one wants to upset you guys for obvious reasons.

Ok, suppose the US demanded that Israel stop attacking Palestinians and withdraw troops and settlements to pre-1967 borders. Suppose also the US agreed to guarantee Israel protection from foreign military invasions. Assume Israel agrees to the demands.

Given those conditions, what should be done to stop Palestinian terrorists?

I really dont know - hence this post. As I said earlier, I don’t wish to simply defend the Palestinians, and slate the Israelis. I am open to argument and persuasion here.

What I think is that under those conditions (withdrawal from the settlements), the rest of the world would feel much more comfortable supporting Israel. I also know that once those conditions were met, the terrorists could be separated from the rest of the Palestinians much easier.

There are a lot of "normal" Palestinians who have lost their homes and land to new Israeli settlements. If these people were to be given no reason to fight, many of them wouldn’t want to. Terrorist recruitment would be much more difficult.

The UN could be installed to help rebuild much of the war-torn Palestine, and any further attacks on Israel by Hamas (or other groups) could be treated as the terrorist threats they are, not just by Israel, but also by the rest of the world. It might also result in less financing for Palestinian terrorist support due to the lack or real moral high-ground they would then have.

Also, how do we know that the terrorism wouldnt just stop? Its a long shot I know, but hey - America has been to war over a few "long shots" lately.

but not that possession of nuclear weapons is a threat to the whole world.

i hope youre able to remember expressing that phrase the day after.

 

Sam, I would suggest reading Larry Kuperman's blogs about Israel.  I think you'd find them enlightening.

 

A good one to start with is The Two Jordans

 

The UN could be installed to help rebuild much of the war-torn Palestine, and any further attacks on Israel by Hamas (or other groups) could be treated as the terrorist threats they are, not just by Israel, but also by the rest of the world.

Would that mean there would be an international force in Palestine tracking down and neutralizing terrorists?