You don’t get many people flying in from Jamaica with an Uzi up their arse!

Actually, you'd be surprised how many folks DO smuggle weapons that way.

Or cant you bear to have a foreigner bring up sensitive issues such as US gun law?!

It's not that we can't bear it, it's that you have preconcieved notions about the culture here when in reality you know very little about it (except for what you've seen on TV). Most Brits who've never lived in the US seem to think that we have ahoot-outs on the streets of every American town every day, and that's just not the case. I'm British, Ive lived here for 16 years (and in some shit hole places like The Bronx, New York) and I've NEVER seen a shoot-out. I even worked with the police department and carried a gun on duty daily and I've NEVER had to unholster my weapon to arrest or apprehend anyone. EVER. Neither has my husband, who not only is a military police officer but who also worked with the civilian PD too.

Like I said, you watch too much TV.

Are you seriously telling me that people put Uzi's up their asses? Get real. A PPK maybe?! Im sure metal detectors would pick up something like that!

Ive been to the US enough to know that shootings are not something everyone has to deal with. Im not talking about that. Im talking about the ...

...oh... f*ck it.

Cant be bothered.

"That’s a cop out. You can’t churn out guns from your basement in the same way you can grow weed, or make pills. I know... its possible, but gun smuggling regs can be tightened. You don’t get many people flying in from Jamaica with an Uzi up their arse!"

Bull. No one makes cocaine or heroine in their basement. If I swaggered in and claimed that making cocaine illegal would slow down cocaine use, Liberals would laugh their asses off. You say that about guns and it is supposed to be logical?

Not hardly. It simply means that only people willing to break the law are the ones who have guns.

Bakerstreet... I agree that it’s very hard to make heroin or coke in your basement from scratch. Its easy to make crack though (if you already have the coke). I know plenty of people who grow (or have grown) their own weed.

What you are comparing this to is this... That drugs are legal and are available in bulk from many of the abandoned stores around New Orleans (plus they are waterproof)!

Lets get off the drugs issue. It’s not relative.

Or cant you bear to have a foreigner bring up sensitive issues such as US gun law?!

I have no problem with a "foreigner" bringing up senstitive issues such as US gun law, as long as you don't have a problem with this "foreigner" bringing up UK gun law. ;~D

It is very applicable, you just refuse to admit it.

You are claiming that making gun ownership illegal would somehow prevent these criminals from having guns. The drug issue disproves that with ease. Drugs are illegal, and plentiful. If guns were illegal they'd be just as plentiful.

Oh come on BakerStreet.

They would be nowhere near as plentiful as they are! There wouldn’t be any shops with hundreds of them in for people to ransack for a start!

Oh come on BakerStreet. They would be nowhere near as plentiful as they are! There wouldn’t be any shops with hundreds of them in for people to ransack for a start!

This only shows what you don't know about the subject. If they aren't in the shops they'd be on the streets for sale in the blackmarket. And they WOULD be just as plentiful. As a hobby machinist and someone who has made more than his share, it's NOT hard to make a firearm especially if it's a single shot. You make them illegal and only the crooks have them. Your crooks have a hard time getting them but they ARE getting them just not in the quanities they want. Where do you think the "illegal" pistols are coming from? That is since pistols are illegal. And since they can't get them in the quanities they are using "other" types of weapons. IE: airpistols/rifles, replica guns of all types, knives ( have you tried to buy a knife lately?) Figures from Scotland yard.

3.1.3 Type of firearm In 37 per cent of offences involving firearms, the firearm involved was not identified. This compares with 44 per cent of offences where the firearm was not identified in 2002. See the comments in section 3.1.1 above for an explanation of this and the following point, which reflect changes in recording by Lothian and Borders Police. Airweapons accounted for 43 per cent of all offences involving firearms in 2003, up from 31 per cent in 2002. The second most common category where the type of firearm was identified was imitation firearms, used in 11 per cent of recorded offences in 2003. The number of offences involving the alleged use of a pistol/revolver was at its lowest since 1990, down 17 per cent from 35 in 2002 to 29 in 2003. The number of offences involving the alleged use of a shotgun remained at historically low levels, increasing from 23 in 2002 to 24 in 2003. The number of offences involving a rifle each year are small; there were only 2 such offences in 2003.

Link

Sam, your argument doesn't make sense. There are tons more drug laws, much heavier enforcement and drugs are illegal in every state; yet illegal drugs are just as prevelant in this country as guns. The criminal doesn't care if his gun or drugs are illegal. Laws don't change behavior, they merely attach punitive action to the behavior and each individual decides whether the risk is worth it or not.

Name one law that prevents a behavior.

" If they aren't in the shops they'd be on the streets for sale in the blackmarket. And they WOULD be just as plentiful."

That is complete bullshit, and you know it! There is no way on this earth that if guns were illegal, and the cops did their job that there would be as many of them as there are now.

How simple is it to go and find guns in a situation where there is a store full of them, with no alarms, doors open, no security... no cops... no army?

Drugs are in no way similar to guns! Anyone who thinks they are is completely deluded!

If drugs were legalised, their usage would have NO CRIMINAL ELEMENT!! I dabble in drugs (understatement?) and I dont commit ANY other crimes, other than perhaps speeding. My purchasing drugs and consuming them is the only criminal act I ever engage in.

No matter how handy you are with your Dremmel... drugs are much easier to smuggle (and make) than guns. END OF STORY.

I am personally all for legalising most types of drugs (with some caveats)- but that has nothing to do with this thread....

If drugs were legal in New Orleans during the Katrina storm, do I think it would have made things any safer!??

Guns are already legal. ...But if guns are used - in most cases - people get SHOT!!

Please tell me you can see the difference? Or am I the only person here who can see this?

---

One law that prevents behaviour? Lets see....

Speeding... as I have already mentioned, not everyone sticks to the speed limits. People would be going a hell of a lot faster without them though!!

While we are on a motoring tip, for a start....

Drink driving: Driving while under the influence of alcohol laws for a start. Obviously, this doesn’t include the USA, as most people there dont give a damn about drink driving! Even here in the UK it doesn’t stop the practice completely, but I promise you fewer people drink and drive here since the law cracked down on it.

Seat Belt Wearing: People are much more likely to wear their seatbelt since it became law. This practice saves thousands of lives. All thanks to being told what to do.

I’m not saying laws prevent behaviour 100%... you will always get rebels. Its stupidity to even suggest that laws dont stop people doing things! Its just that when bad people can get hold of guns so easily, they are much more likely to start using them.

You guys can be so frustrating. Now I remember why I haven’t been back to this site for so long.

If they didn't have guns, they'd have knives. If they didn't have knives, they'd have clubs.

What you miss, though, is the simple fact that the criminals would STILL have the guns if they were confiscated, and the tragedy would be many times worse, with homes invaded of private citizens who are ill equipped to defend themselves against these intruders.

The founding fathers wrote the Bill of Rights FOR A REASON. They knew the value of being able to possess armaments for one's own defense.

As long as people blame crime on guns, crime won't be addressed.

damn, baker, you NAILED IT!

This British asshole doesn't seem to realise that my free access to a gun to blow my neighbour's head off if he parks in my driveway again is a goddam constitutional right.

Just like these kids who run up their schools with guns, constitutional rights!

Speeding... as I have already mentioned, not everyone sticks to the speed limits. People would be going a hell of a lot faster without them though!!

WRONG!!! For awhile in the 90s there was NO Speedlimit on interstates during daylight hours in the state of Montana. Average Speed drivers chose... 80mph. From dusk to dawn the speed limit was 75mph... average speed prefered by drivers... 80mph. I 43 that runs through my county.. Speed Limit 65mph... average driving speed 75mph (everyone in the area knows they won't pull you over until you hit the magic number "80"... So in reality 79 is the real speed limit.

How do laws "Prevent" drunk driving, or force people to wear seatbelts. The only difference between behavior during a crackdown is more people Decide that the risk isn't worth it... it doesn't Prevent or Force anything.

The law means nothing to anyone who chooses not to obey it. It doesn't matter if it is speeding, parking, drugs, alcohol, murder, rape or anything else.

Drugs and guns are very comparable. Neither are dangerous unless they are abused, and each have both legitimate and illegitimate uses.

In fact, when it comes to gun laws, the only difference between communities that allow private ownership of guns and those who don't is how they view a person who uses a gun to defend themselves or someone else. Is the gun owner who shoots a rapist plying his trade a hero or a criminal? How you answer that question speaks volumes to what you think about guns.

Bakerstreet:

As long as people blame crime on guns, crime won't be addressed.

Have an Insightful, on me!!

Are you seriously telling me that people put Uzi's up their asses? Get real. A PPK maybe?! Im sure metal detectors would pick up something like that!

You wouldn't believe the things people shove up their butts. Really.

You are claiming that making gun ownership illegal would somehow prevent these criminals from having guns.

Perhaps if you understood the process a person has to go through in order to own a firearm you'd see that the majority of guns used in crimes are ILLEGALLY owned.

If they didn't have guns, they'd have knives. If they didn't have knives, they'd have clubs.

THANK-YOU!

You guys can be so frustrating. Now I remember why I haven’t been back to this site for so long

That's a 2 way street, y'know. You can be equally as frustrating because you insist that your country has it right and we have it wrong.